Dear John:

I think we're in very much the same ballpark here, (probably even the same team<!><G>)....

The bunched chin _is_ useless if it's accomplished ala a clarinetist(ie bottom lip rolled in over the bottom teeth)...

The alternative is to roll the bottom lip SLIGHTLY up over the very bottom edge of the top teeth....This keeps the lower lip from collapsing into the mouth(and helps prevent *pitch sag* after the attack)...

Please note, this is not always necessary, merely another tool in your playing techniques toolbox!

Gripping the lower lip against the upper teeth this way enables both central compression(*centering in*) of the orbicularis oris muscle AND compression of the lips against each other(*making the red disappear*)....

The amazing thing is how SUBTLE the process becomes when applied correctly....It's also what enables the experienced player to keep extraneous lip motion down to a minimum, since the majority of the movement occurs WITHIN the rim of the mpc....

One is also able to keep the corners stationary(until the very highest ranges, when they tend to move VERY slightly inward toward the center)...

It is the muscle tissue BETWEEN the corners and the center which flexes, not, imo, the corners themselves, unless you are playing on an exTREMEly deep, v-shaped cup(ala a french horn mpc)....

This, imo, is one of the fundamental differences between trumpeters and other brass players, namely that we ARE able to play with minimal musculature(and VERY fine motor control)....

It's the orbicularis oris muscle as well as the mentalis, platysma, and levators which then become most important, rather than the zygomaticus, risorius and buccinators, which are so important to the lower brass players...

Fwiw, I'm in the process of creating graphic representations of the facial musculature(drawings/tracings) which I will send to Stanton and Ole so they can be incorporated on the web pages...

I'm hoping to be able to clarify the issues involved for everyone with these, but I'm not a graphic artist, so the process is a slow one....so please be patient, I'm hopeful they'll be worth the wait....

Best,
Jeanne

John Daniel wrote:
>
> Jeanne,
> I really would like to discuss this further with you,  I've had a few
> students over the years who had lessons with Jerry Callet or were exposed
> to his embouchure ideas at some point.  This flexing upward of the muscles
> in the chin area is or was an important part of his teaching, and I've
> found it very useful myself. I'm pretty sure you will agree that usually
> when we see a bunched chin, it is with a pronounced downstream approach
> that doesn't work because the bottom lip simply rolls over the bottom
> teeth, instead of compressing against the top lip and/or helping both lips
> to roll in together.  When the jaw is placed properly and the lips are
> interacting properly, these muscles in the chin area can flex upward pretty
> agressively, sometimes resulting in the classic bunched chin a la Harry
> James but usually flexing to a lesser degree and not quite bunching up.  I
> would never advocate a "flat chin" like clarinet players describe and have
> known a few trumpet players over the years to get totally sidetracked by
> trying to keep a flat chin.  Are we talking about the same thing here?
> It's so much easier to demonstrate!@#$%^^&
> Thanks for your time and thoughts,
> John Daniel